House of Assembly
Newfoundland and Labrador

 Private Member's Motion 
Wednesday, April 1, 2009

To remove all preconditions before province 
resumes negotiations with nurses union

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MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to table the following resolution for debate in the House of Assembly, and I am sure it will be a lively debate:

WHEREAS nurses of the Province have finished the strike vote with nearly a 90 per cent strike mandate in favour of strike action; and

WHEREAS nurses are continuing to go through the collective bargaining process with negotiations scheduled to resume on tomorrow; and

WHEREAS the government’s preconditions included such things as a four-year contract with concessions, including extended earnings loss, market adjustment letter and classification; and

WHEREAS government held a news conference on February 12, 2009 indicating that preconditions no longer apply to the nursing negotiations; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Finance reinstated the preconditions as part of his unscripted Budget Speech on March 26, 2009;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the government to remove all preconditions before resuming negotiations with the nurses’ union on tomorrow in order to reach an agreement, and an agreement that would be in the best interest of the people of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, we tabled this motion in the House of Assembly because we feel that it is important - to use the government’s own words - that if you make a commitment you keep your commitment. If you give your word, you keep your word.

Where have we heard all of these phases before? We have heard them all before in the context of the government opposite dealing with the federal government and Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Every time that there was a commitment made, or a commitment was broken, or the interpretation of what the Prime Minister’s word was, this is a government that has been out yelling and bawling and stamping their feet on the steps of every platform that they could get on, talking about: How dare you make a commitment and you break your commitments?

Well, Mr. Speaker, this is certainly a case in which government gave their word to nurses in what I thought at the time in good faith to get them to come back to the bargaining table by saying that we would take all preconditions off the table, we will sit down and we will have a discussion, and we will see if we can come to a consensus that we can live with as a government and that you can live with as nurses, and that will provide for a strengthened health care system in our Province.

Mr. Speaker, what happened was before that meeting ever took place, before there was ever an opportunity for those nurses and government to sit face to face to sort out these issues, government walks in at a moment’s notice, in the middle of the Budget Speech, one of the most important speeches and documents that gets tabled in the House of Assembly every single year, and it was in the middle of tabling that Budget Speech that the Minister of Finance said, unscripted: This is not usual, this is unusual from what I understand, but I am going to do it anyway. He comes out and he lays upon the table all the preconditions, all the preconditions that only days before, only weeks before, they had given their word, they had given their commitment to nurses, that it was off the table.

Mr. Speaker, I laugh because this is a government who loves to get out and beat up on the federal government when they do not keep their word, when they do not keep their commitments. Yet, they are doing the very same thing themselves to a public sector group in this Province: in this case, nurses.

Mr. Speaker, I think the interest of everyone is better served here if you leave the political games and the bullying tactics out of it. The bullying tactics of government have only served to inflate and irritate nurses right across the Province. I know, Mr. Speaker, because not only did I listen to what was said in the media, but I get a lot of e-mails from nurses, as well, who really feel today that they are being disrespected, not just in the positions that they hold in the Province. They also feel there is no respect for the very process that they have to bargain within to try and advance the issues that are important to them.

They only feel that way because they have been led to feel that way by the Minister of Finance and by the government. If they did not pull the tactic that they did last Thursday, on Budget day, we would not be standing here in this House of Assembly today debating this motion. We would probably be standing here debating a very different motion: a motion that would call upon the government to get a deal with nurses, in order to preserve the integrity of the health care system, so that we do not find people right across Newfoundland and Labrador having to wait longer for surgeries and for beds, and for diagnostic testing and for treatments.

We would probably be standing here today debating a motion in which we would be supporting the government in getting a resolution with nurses in the Province; but, Mr. Speaker, we are not doing that today. We are not doing that. We are here debating the motion that is before us for one reason only, and that was because there was a commitment made by the government opposite that we would go back to the bargaining table with nurses, we would go back in good faith, we would remove the preconditions that were currently there, we would start over and we would work tirelessly to get a deal with nurses in the Province.

That did not stay true, Mr. Speaker. In fact, it is the complete opposite and it is rather disappointing. It is rather disappointing, because if you look at the events that have transpired in the last few months with nurses in this Province as they went out to try and raise the profile of their issues, as they went out looking to secure the best collective agreement that they could possibly get for their members - and that is not usual. That happens with every union in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Any union that is worth its salt, any union that is doing the job of representing its members, is always going to go out and work hard to get the best deal that they can get.

Mr. Speaker, the measure of what is the best deal for one group may be a little different for the other group, and that is what we are finding in this Province today. I have talked to NAPE workers, I have talked to CUPE workers, I have talked to people who work at the college, I have talked to people who work with the RNC, and I have to say that all of these groups are quite satisfied, quite satisfied, with the agreements that have been negotiated with their unions. That is why they have settled. That is why today they do not have a beef with government any more on their collective bargaining piece.

Nurses, Mr. Speaker, are measuring what they need in a very different way. I say that because we all know that the nursing profession in this Province is understaffed. We also know that the conditions under which many nurses work every single day are not ideal. I bet every member in this House of Assembly has talked to nurses in their districts. I bet some of you have talked to nurses who said: Well, I am okay. I am doing all right. I am making a good wage. We have a pretty good complement of staff.

I bet you have all talked to nurses who have said: I cannot get any vacation time. I cannot get family time. I am doing double shifts. I am not getting paid for the work that I do. I am afraid that I am going to make a mistake on my job and it is going to cost somebody their life.

I have heard both sides of it, Mr. Speaker, and both sides of it exist. Both sides of it exist, but I will tell you one thing. The one thing that you cannot dispute is the shortage of nurses that exists in the Province today.

Where do we recruit those nurses from? We only have several options. One is right here in our own Province, Mr. Speaker, and in the last few months I have met with a number of nursing students. Guess what? Every second nursing student who I have met with is going outside the Province to take a job. They are going for different reasons. They are getting bigger sign-on bonuses. Their starting salaries are much higher. They are not going to be expected to work sixteen or twenty hours a day with back-to-back shifts. Mr. Speaker, these are the things that are enticing nurses to move outside the Province and work.

I have talked to some nurses who are going to stay in the Province, but they will only work in certain areas of the Province because they get a bigger bonus if they sign on with the board in this area of the Province as opposed to the other area of the Province. They don’t have to work as many hours, they get regular work weeks, if they sign on with this board in this facility.

Mr. Speaker, even in our own Province we are unable to retain the complement of nurses that we need, but worse than that, we are not retaining the graduates who are coming out. There are still far too many who are leaving, and they are leaving more for work and lifestyle issues and monetary reward.

Where else do we go? We go into Atlantic Canada where, today, nurses are being paid substantially higher than our own nurses; also, going in to recruit in a region that has nursing shortages itself, that is projecting more nursing shortages over the next number of years, Mr. Speaker, as more nurses retire from the system.

Where else do we go to recruit? Do we go to places like British Columbia where they are building new hospitals and, today, are looking to recruit something like 3,000 nurses? How do we compete with that, when already their salary scales are much higher than ours are?

I am not saying that we need to be paying what they are getting in Alberta or British Columbia or in Ontario, but what I am saying is that we need to pay our nurses at a rate that is respectable and in line with the rest of Atlantic Canada. We need to put in programs that will allow them to recruit more nurses into the system, so we don’t have situations like we have today with surgeries being cancelled in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, with surgeries being cancelled in St. John’s. In fact, we have already been told. There were more cardiac surgeries cancelled at Eastern Health, at the Health Sciences Centre, in the first quarter of this year than for the full twelve months last year. Do you know why a lot of those surgeries were cancelled? Do you know the reasoning they gave us? The shortage of nurses was one of the primary reasons why these surgeries have been cancelled, that and the shortage of anaesthesiologists.

So, Mr. Speaker, we already know and we are already seeing the trend. When you start seeing more surgeries being cancelled in one specialized area in the first quarter of one year than you did in the full twelve months of last year, and you have people in the system telling you that it is attributed to the shortage of nurses, at what rate is the government not going to get the picture? At what juncture are you not going to understand that the shortage of nurses in this Province is contributing to a lower degree of health services for people? Meaning they have to wait longer, meaning they have more surgeries postponed, meaning there are less beds that can be available for people that need to be hospitalized. This is what we are seeing. We are getting calls all the time.

That is why we have encouraged government to look at non-pattern bargaining when it comes to nurses. You look at non-pattern bargaining when it comes to doctors, when it comes to specialists, when it comes to pharmacists, when you deal with the RNC in lots of cases, which is done in a very different manner than the rest of the public service. There are precedents in this Province, precedents that have been set by the government themselves.

Last year we saw them deal with pathologists and oncologists. That was not a part of pattern bargaining in any way. It was specialized responses to a situation in the Province that required government’s attention, required government’s investment, because they wanted to protect the integrity of the system and ensure that people who needed to see a pathologist or an oncologist would have those services. So they went out on a limb and they did what they had to do to retain them in the Province, to keep them in the positions so that if I am sick today or you are sick today or someone in our district is sick today, they at least know they can walk in and they can have those services, but they did not do it through pattern bargaining. They did it through a special initiative that was required to respond to a problem.

Well, we have another problem in the Province, and it is a problem with our nurses. I think that government should go to the table with nurses with an open mind. Without the preconditions that the minister outlined in his Budget Speech on Thursday, but without any expectation, other than being able to come to a consensus that government can afford and live with, that nurses can accept, and that will allow us to recruit and retain more nurses in our system and allow us to protect the integrity and strengthen our health care system.

That is why we put forward this motion today, Mr. Speaker, and I am sure we will hear lots of debate from the members opposite.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to take a couple of minutes this afternoon to make some comments on the private member’s motion.

I was listening to the Leader of the Opposition talk about the motion itself for a little while but then she talked a lot about nursing and what was happening in the profession, what was happening in our health system. I think that is an important context to create, but there is a piece of information that she has been sharing - and I will not challenge some of the comments that she made around the great work that nurses do, because I too believe, we as a government believe, that nurses in this Province do a great job. They provide quality patient care and they genuinely want to make sure they do what is best and what is right for the patients that they serve. So I would never challenge that, Mr. Speaker.

In fact, I think this government has clearly demonstrated in the last couple of years, with the investments we have made in our health system, with the investments we have made in nursing, the number of new positions we have created, the amount of money we have invested in making sure that they have a quality work life, I think is a testimony to our government’s – and speaks volumes, I think, for our government’s commitment to enhance the profession of nursing in this Province, and generally, to make some overall improvements in our health system.

When you start talking about health care in Newfoundland and Labrador, and nursing in Newfoundland and Labrador, I think it is really important to create some national context for this. All you need to do, Mr. Speaker, is to pick up any newspaper, pick up any newspaper in the country today, and you will hear stories that are very similar to the ones that the member opposite was just referring.

I am looking at a commentary here from a nurse in New Brunswick, talks about nursing for twenty-nine years. She goes: every day, every shift, we come to work knowing that a full complement of nurses will not be there when we get there.

I look at another comment from a nurse coming out of Grand Prairie, with eighteen years experience, talking about the same thing. I picked up a copy of a newspaper out of Banff, and they talked about the exact same thing.

You can go through any paper in the country, I say, Mr. Speaker, and they will talk about what is happening in their community within nursing, within the health system. Every single jurisdiction in the country is having a similar conversation.

I think one of the things we need to better understand, I think, Mr. Speaker, as we talk about the offer that is on the table for nurses, my colleague made comment the other day in the House about some enhancements that are being made to the offer that was there. When we start talking about the nursing profession, let’s examine a little bit about some of the things that we have done as a government. I just talked a little bit about what has happened around the rest of the country and what is happening in Newfoundland and Labrador, and this is nothing new, this is nothing new at all.

In fact, one thing about the proceedings in this House, every single word that a person says in this House of Assembly is recorded in Hansard. I know there have been comments made in this House in recent past about how the Opposition have hired a former Minister of Health to be one of their advisers, someone who is providing advice to the current Liberal Party and the current leader on issues around health and other public policy issues. That very same person was a Minister of Health at one time.

Let me just read for you in Hansard about what she said back in 1998. In December of 1998, the current advisor to the Leader of the Opposition on health issues, who herself was a former health minister, was talking about this very thing in 1998 in response to questions by our party around what was happening in health care. She said at that time, in December 1998, the then Minister of Health, the current advisor to the current Opposition leader on health issues, says, "Everybody knows that our health care system is under a lot of stress. We have made a number of statements…", "…the health care system today is under a lot of stress and, as I read in my Ministerial Statement previously, we have put some $20 million back into the system last year." Twenty million dollars as if it is a lot of money.

Mr. Speaker, when I pick up an analysis of our government’s investment in money, well here is what I am looking at. On operational budgets alone, I see this year we are increasing our health budget’s expenditure on operations, not capital, not equipment, but just operations alone by $186 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Last year, it increased by $217 million; the previous year, $146 million; the previous year, $168 million; the previous year, $98 million. Here we are, just a few short years before that, the members opposite, their minister stood and bragged about how they have invested $20 million over last year. So, Mr. Speaker, it pales in comparison.

When we start talking about the investments this government is making in health care, that is the economic investment, that is the amount of money we have invested, but just look at how we have spent that money, Mr. Speaker, how that money has been spent and what advantage that has been to the nursing profession in this Province.

Just to talk about some of the improvements we have made: We have increased the number of nursing positions in the community health system in the last three budgets, Mr. Speaker. We have greater capacity working at a community level than we have ever had in our history. We have increased the number of nursing positions that we have had in our acute care settings. We have increased the number of nursing positions that we have in our long-term care settings. While, in fact, we do today have a shortage in some areas we have also increased the number of positions in our system throughout the last couple of years.

In the last two or three years particularly, Mr. Speaker, we have been successful in recruiting about 80 per cent of the new graduates coming out. The member opposite talked about how she has spoken to some graduates who are coming out this year who have made decisions to go elsewhere. There will always be, Mr. Speaker. Every single graduate that comes out the programs in this Province will not always want to stay here in this Province. There will be personal choices they will make. Their personal circumstances, their career aspirations, will take them elsewhere. That is to be said not just for nursing. That is to be said for engineers, teachers, technologists of all kinds, who will make decisions around where they may want to live.

When we examine our efforts as a government, working with our four health authorities to try to attract more nurses to stay, try to work with them to ensure that we create a quality workplace for them in which to be proud, that they want to stay and be a part of - in fact last week, Mr. Speaker, our government hosted a forum on health care, a nursing forum. We brought together some 140 people from within the nursing profession. They were front line workers, they were union representatives, they were professional association representatives, members of the health authorities, and they came together and spent a full day talking about quality workplaces, what constitutes a quality workplace. They talked about effective utilization of human resources in our health system; that is nursing human resources. They talked about models of clinical practice. They had some leaders from around the country come in and talk about their experiences in other jurisdictions, what has worked well in those provinces, what has worked well for them in ensuring that they create a work environment, that they create a workplace where people want to work, are pleased to work and want to stay. These are some of the things that we have done, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that we have, in this Province, an adequate supply of capable, competent, well-trained individuals.

I just commented a moment ago about the kind of investments we have made in health care, and we will continue to make improvements in our system. We will continue to enhance programs and services, but I want to speak for a moment, Mr. Speaker, around the nursing profession.

Yes, members opposite have acknowledged and commented around the number of people who might be retiring in the next number of years. We have talked about the recruitment success that we have had, and some of the things that we need to be doing, but what is interesting about some of the comments made by members opposite is we need to be competitive. The Leader of the Opposition points out that we need to be competitive with other jurisdictions. We need to make sure our compensation schemes are equivalent to or competitive with other jurisdictions, but compensation is one piece of this, I say, Mr. Speaker. Some of the other things that we have heard from the nursing profession in recent days is, money is important to them. Yes, we all acknowledge that, but one of the other things that they have talked about is the quality of their work life.

That is one of the reasons I say, Mr. Speaker, in fact the primary reason, that is the primary reason that we as a government want to work with the health authorities and want to work with the unions and the professional associations to ensure that we, in fact, are focusing on quality work life issues.

Today, as we speak, we have partnered with the nurses’ union. The Newfoundland and Labrador Nurses’ Union are partnering with two of our health authorities on two projects, two special projects, one in Central Newfoundland and one within Eastern Health, as a partnership has been formed between the health authority and the nurses’ union where they have zeroed in on and targeted a particular initiative in a particular institution to try to bring about real change in the quality of work life, bring about real change with what is happening around them in the workplace, all with a view - because all of us have the same interests here. The union has the interest, the employees themselves have an interest, the health authorities have, and we as a government all have a similar interest here in ensuring that we have quality workplaces.

We can improve the quality of working life if we work together collectively. That is why I commend both of those health authorities and the nurses’ union for acknowledging that there is a role for all of us to play in this process. That is why they have come together in a partnership relationship, to work collaboratively in ensuring that they are able to look at what is best practice, what is happening in workplaces around this country to ensure that they are able to improve the quality of work life.

I was speaking at this conference I referenced earlier that took place last week. I was speaking with someone from a hospital in Ottawa who was there as a guest speaker and she was sharing her experiences and the experiences of the organization that she is a part of. She was sharing some thoughts and some ideas as to what they did in Ottawa to make a real improvement. One of the key ingredients, Mr. Speaker, and one of the key success factors, was their ability to work collaboratively with all people involved, which was the administration of the institution, the front line employees, the union that represented the employees, all coming together in the same fashion that I just described a moment ago as we are doing in both Central and in Eastern Health. Because we believe that if we focus on quality work life issues, we believe that if we work with the unions and work with the employees to identify those issues that are important to them, then we will, I believe, achieve the same level of success as they have done at the Ottawa hospital that I was describing earlier.

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, the substance of the motion before us today for some debate, and tabled by the Opposition, is around the current set of negotiations. I say, Mr. Speaker, very clearly, and I want to link here now their motion and the comment made by the Leader of the Opposition when she once again called on government to ensure that we have a compensation scheme in this Province that makes us competitive with other jurisdictions, to ensure that as new graduates look at where they want to pursue their career they will realize that compensation should not be an impediment to their staying here.

As we start talking about Newfoundlanders, or talking to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, who once before made a decision to move somewhere else, we would be anxious to have them return to the Province and we need to ensure that our compensation in this Province is competitive with other jurisdictions if they are to be lured back to Newfoundland and Labrador, to come back home and continue to practice within their chosen profession.

I say, Mr. Speaker, with what has been laid before the nurses’ union now, what has been commented on by my colleague the President of Treasury Board and has been mapped out for them, clearly would provide for them a very competitive wage package. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that after tomorrow when the set of negotiations resume, that through further discussion between my colleague, the President of Treasury Board, and the nurses’ union, I think at the end of the day there will be recognition that the offer before them is a reasonable one. It makes us competitive, which is the question by the Leader of the Opposition. Her request is to ensure that we are competitive with other jurisdictions, and we believe that the offer now does just that.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to conclude, if I could, on this particular comment because it is an important point. A part of this debate and a part of the comments by the union and by some of the people representing nurses in the Province is that this is not all about compensation. It is about quality of work life and the role that they play in the system.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say today, on behalf of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and as the Minister of Health and Community Services, I want to clearly say, that we as a government, we and the health authorities, clearly value and appreciate the work that the nurses do in this Province. We recognize that they are a major part of our system. In fact, they are the largest single group of employees in our health system who do quality work, and they are very much an integral part, providing some strong leadership roles in the organization in which they work.

Whether it is a long term care setting, a community setting, an education setting, or a research setting, nurses are not only providing quality care, but providing strong leadership, the visionary insights into what our future health system should look like. We value the work that they do, we appreciate the work that they provide for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we look forward to continuing to build on the relationships that we have had in the past, and will continue to work collaboratively in ensuring that we work in the best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

On that note, Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time and the opportunity to make those few comments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is a privilege today to be able to stand and make a few comments with regard to the Private Member’s Motion put forward by my hon. colleague from Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

I guess, just to look at the Private Member’s Motion to begin with, we know that negotiations are to begin again tomorrow, and we hope that there will be an announcement tomorrow, or in the very near future, that government and the nurses have come to an agreement and there will not be any need for a strike, even though the nurses have received a tremendous mandate to do so.

Mr. Speaker, in our Private Member’s Motion, we noted that in February of 2009 at a press conference, the government took away the preconditions with regards to the negotiations with the nurses, but then again the Minister of Finance reinstated those preconditions in the Budget Speech which took place on March 26. All we are asking government to do in this motion here today, is to call upon government to remove the preconditions before resuming negotiations.

Mr. Speaker, we all know that collective bargaining is a very important instrument when it comes to workers in our province, regardless if it is nurses or whatever particular trade it might be. I mean, collective bargaining begins with a process of negotiation between management and the union representatives, for the purpose of arriving at a mutual acceptable wage and a working condition. We understand and we know, from the nurses, that they have said, numerous times, that why they are taking this strike vote is not altogether with regards to the financial end of, and not altogether with the conditions in the facilities where they work, but the working conditions that they have to go through from time to time.

I know the Minister of Health, when he was up, stated, regardless what a former administration did back in 1998, but I have to remind him that, I guess, when a barrel of oil was around $25 a barrel it is quite a difference than if you average it out to be $86 a barrel or the $150 a barrel that we enjoy today, coming from projects that just came on stream just a few years ago.

He also mentioned about the nurses in other jurisdictions, where you can read letters from any Province with regards to the conditions for nurses and the shortage of nurses in those particular provinces. Mr. Speaker, I would say that is little consolation to the problems that we have here. I think that we should just deal with the issues that are placed before us.

As I stated, negotiations are beginning again tomorrow and we know that nurses had a mandate to strike, a strike mandate of 89.7 per cent across the board when you calculate in the four regions of our Province.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard comments made such as, if they should go on strike they will be legislated back to work, and so on. That is all fine and that has happened in the past, but because it happened in the past it is not right to see that it happens again. Those individuals go through a very trying time and they are a very important component to the operation of health care in our Province. As far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, those individuals deserve better.

Many of the hon. members here in this House attended a breakfast just last year that the nurses sponsored one morning, and we heard the individual stories, and how one young individual said that when she graduated this year she was – not with regards to the wages, even though she could just across the Gulf and get a tremendous increase in her wages, but it was the working conditions that she would have to put up with over there, and the time matter as well.

Mr. Speaker, from time to time we see different articles – as the minister mentioned, letters that he has seen in the paper from outside the Province, in various other jurisdictions. It was only back a few months ago there was a letter in the local paper here in St. John’s from a doctor. As a matter of fact, I think at one particular time he lived in the Bay Roberts area and probably practiced there. He went on to say he was a family doctor but he was also an emergency room physician. He stated then, at that particular time, that he felt the conditions with the nurses was in a crisis situation. Those are his words, not mine. He said they were burnt out, over worked, and they cannot continue when they are in that particular state to offer excellent health care services to the individuals patients.

I think I mentioned this before, but it is only this past Christmas, in the general hospital in Carbonear, the Carbonear General Hospital, where I reside, where I know of a particular individual who was on duty, on a twelve-hour shift. She was supposed to be replaced, but because the other people were overworked and they just didn’t come in, this lady had to serve there for twenty-four hours; twenty-four hours in an emergency unit. This is the kind of situation we are in, when there is a shortage of individuals. They deserve better, Mr. Speaker.

We have to get away from talking about; it is all about money. It is not all about money. It is about a way to recruit new nurses, different individuals. I mean, some of those people are mandated to work twenty-four hours shifts, endless hours of overtime. Finally, when you are working under those conditions, you have to realize that you become exhausted and it is not a safe environment either for the nurses or for the patients they have to deal with.

I think we have to work together more with the nurses. When it comes to negotiations, I think government should sit down with them, put all the pre-conditions to one side, and start afresh, and hopefully they can come to an agreement, that we will not see a strike here in this Province. Nobody wants to see that, let me assure you.

We say, from time to time, with regards to the recruitment and retention of nurses – I mean, many of those issues cannot be fixed with money alone. You take people with twelve-hour shifts, a tremendous workload, it limits their ability. There are many positions in this Province that have been vacant now for over two or three years, and people are unable to fill them. There are astounding numbers that people consider from time to time. They find it very difficult, not because of the finance part of it, but working under such stress and with such workloads facing them.

Mr. Speaker, you will hear nurses make comments from time to time about how the conditions have deteriorated over the past four or five years. It was only when I attended the Municipalities Convention in Corner Brook this past fall – a colleague of mine from out in the Conception Bay North area, on his way back to his community I asked him was he going to go directly home today. He said, no, he was going to visit his daughter on the way across the Island. I asked him where she was working, and he said she was a nurse. But, he said, do you know something? She is worked to the point now that when she serves three or four or five twelve-hour shifts, when she goes home she will not stay in the house because she is fearful she is going to get a call and be asked to come back in and have to serve a twenty-four hour shift. Mr. Speaker, that is the condition those nurses find themselves in, not only in that particular incident but in many other incidents similar to that.

It was only this fall I attended a fiftieth anniversary on Coley’s Point, and one of the daughters in that household is a nurse who will graduate this year. She said there is nothing I would rather do than stay here in my Province and practice my profession. She said it is not altogether about the money, even though I can make more money other places and probably help to pay down my student loan all that much faster, but she said, I know what people are going through. I have been on my work terms and I see the conditions that nurses here today have to work in. That is why she said, I may be moving outside of this Province, for no other reason. I want to stay here. This is where the nurses are coming from, Mr. Speaker.

There was another lady who called me only recently in a neighbouring district of mine, expressing concerns that the nurses have in that particular area, and the numbers of individuals who are getting to a certain age level now that there will be massive numbers retiring in the next five or six years. They cannot see - unless there is a recruitment program in place to attract more nurses to our Province. I know the minister said there are more seats this year and more of the individuals who are graduating here in the Province are deciding to stay here, and that is all good, but the numbers are so large, Mr. Speaker, that more has to be done.

This particular lady said to me, my husband is retiring. He is a civil servant as well. She said he is retiring in two years. As matter of fact, he is with the Department of Transportation and Works. She said once he retires I am going to leave and go outside the Province so I can finish my career. I just cannot take it any longer here, not because of the financial end of it but because of the workload and the stress and strain that I am putting myself through and not being able to provide an adequate level of care for the people that I represent.

Mr. Speaker, the list can go on. There are many people, many individuals who find themselves in the same position. We hear them on the Open Line shows. We read their letters in the paper, where they are telling us right upfront that it is not the money. We saw the e-mails come in after the minister made this comment in the Budget last week. They said government still does not understand. The issue is not a financial one. Even though, and I think the majority of them agree, who would not agree with the offer that has been put forward, but it is more than the financial end of it that those individuals are talking about.

We hear so often with regards to - and it was only recently. I think it was at the Lab health centre, the OR was shut down so nurses could be at the emergency unit. Mr. Speaker, that is unacceptable. I know full well in our own area many individuals - because recently, there last year, or year-and-a-half ago there was such a shortage of doctors in the area the emergency unit at the Carbonear hospital was just overflowing with people coming there for whatever reason. They thought it was an emergency, and because of the shortage of individuals, the individual nurses who are operating in those hospitals, it was just a backlog and people used to have to work for as high as a twenty-four hour shift.

Mr. Speaker, all we have to do is go and visit any patient or any constituent of ours in the hospital and we can see how those individuals work their schedules. I was over at the Health Sciences only about two weeks ago visiting a constituent of mine. The people on that particular floor had so many patients to look after, and the shortage of nurses there at that particular time, they were actually running from room to room. That is all fine, and they do a tremendous job for us, but I believe we have to have more nurses and a better retention program and so on.

We also heard recently from the Health Sciences back in January of 2009, twenty-seven of sixty-five cardiac surgeries were cancelled, and seventeen of them were due to nursing shortages.

Mr. Speaker, those are not facts that we are making up, those are not just stories you pull out of the air. Those are concerns from the individuals that we are referring to in this particular private member’s motion.

All we are asking government, all we are asking them to do is that when they go back to the table tomorrow to remember not only that – they do have a 90 per cent strike vote, but that is not what they want. They do not want to hit the streets. They did that before and they know what it is like to be on strike. I am sure the government of that particular day, as well as the government today, do not want to see a strike any more than what happened at that time. At least when they go back to the table tomorrow, all we are asking in this private member’s motion and asking members on the government side to consider when they vote today - there is nothing here out of the way - all we are asking is that the preconditions that were placed on the table originally, and were taken off, are now back on again. All we are saying is to really consider this and ask that when we go to the negotiations tomorrow that those preconditions, before you resume negotiations, that they would be removed. That is all we are asking for.

I think the nurses of this Province, the least we can do as they go into their negotiations tomorrow, is go with a clean slate. Forget about what was said in the past on either side. Hopefully, the people of this Province will be able to say tomorrow, or over this weekend, that this strike has been settled. The nurses have agreed, have come to an agreement that not only the wages that have been offered to them has been accepted, but also the working conditions that they so deserve to have, better working conditions, and hopefully more nurses will come on stream so that they can continue on and provide the health care that the residents of this Province so rightfully deserve.

So, Mr. Speaker, with that, I will complete my comments and listen to what is being said by the other members.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: It is good to see, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues in the House are so intent on listening to my fifteen minutes today, and I hope they will cheer right along as I speak throughout the evening.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, it is all right, certainly, to have a little joke at the beginning of it.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious situation that we have here. We are debating a private member’s motion today, but if you were to listen to some of the members of the Official Opposition, you would think that none of us in this House have ever been approached by a nurse, do not know what nursing is. Certainly, we have a lot to learn about nursing itself.

I am not a nurse, personally, but I am fortunate to have had the pleasure, I guess, of dealing with nurses. I had a family member in hospital last year for almost six weeks. So I too, like the Member for Port de Grave, did see nurses in action pretty well every single day for a five or six week period, and I take my hat off to nurses, Mr. Speaker. There is no one that doubts their ability. They are very well-educated people. They know what they are doing. My full admission, I was the first one to sing out to a nurse when trouble arose. Certainly, I would not know what to do in the case of my family member.

Mr. Speaker, there is no one, nobody, who does not respect what nurses do. As a matter of fact, we certainly respect it. Many of us around here, we have family members and we have friends who are nurses. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, in my case in particular, and I know many others, we have people who work on our campaigns who are nurses.

So to say that we live in some kind of bubble and we do not associate with nurses, and we do not get feedback from nurses. I get e-mails from nurses and I talk to nurses in my district. I talk to them on the phone and I am certainly plugged in to many of the issues they face. I know when I say that I speak for all of government, Mr. Speaker, because all of us are in touch, and we are all hoping, certainly, for a speedy resolution. Hopefully, tomorrow when the Minister of Finance meets with the nurses union, hopefully by tomorrow or late tomorrow evening we will get a beautiful press release saying this is all dealt with, over with, and we will move right on. That would be the perfect situation tomorrow.

When the Opposition gets up and they say they should be here today supporting government, well I say Mr. Speaker, here we are tomorrow, we are about to open negotiations and the Opposition are being very political. I mean, that is what they are here to do, to be very, very political.

I wonder sometimes, Mr. Speaker, if they hope there is never a deal done, as was the line in Question Period today about the Lower Churchill. I am not convinced they want that to happen. You never know what you are going to get from the Official Opposition, I say, Mr. Speaker.

One point that the Leader of the Opposition pointed out today, she claimed that she has been out talking to nurses - no different than any of us certainly – and she said that every second one was leaving the Province. Every second nurse was leaving the Province and moving away.

Mr. Speaker, an interesting statistic came to mind that was shared with me in the last couple of weeks, and that was one from 2008. In 2008, Mr. Speaker, 81 per cent of our graduates stayed in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is 81 per cent. The Leader of the Opposition would lead you to believe that 50 per cent of them are leaving. Every second one is leaving this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to have, obviously, people who move out of the Province for a variety of reasons. I am sure some for bigger money, whether it be in the U.S. market or whatever the case may be, or others because of leaving with spouses, whatever the case may be, but to leave an impression here in this House, and to the general public, that half of the nurses that are graduating from our programs in the Province are leaving is absolutely untrue, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of fact, the statistics say different and prove different. Mr. Speaker, 81 per cent, in 2008, decided to stay right here in this Province, and that says a lot.

She goes on to say that maybe we should not be out recruiting in Atlantic Canada because they are in a nursing shortage too. She goes on to say here we are out recruiting in places where there are nursing shortages. I am sure the hon. Leader of the Opposition has to realize this: there is not only a shortage of nurses in Newfoundland and Labrador. There is a shortage in all of Atlantic Canada. There is a shortage throughout the country. I believe it is Alberta that has the highest wages in Canada for nurses, for RNs, and they are short nurses. There is a shortage in the United States of America. Naturally, wherever we go - we cannot sit home on our laurels - wherever we go to recruit nurses, there is going to be a nurse shortage. Obviously, people come to our Province to try to recruit them as well, so we have to be proactive. We cannot sit down and say we are not going somewhere because there is currently a shortage of nurses. Part of recruiting and I guess retaining nurses here in this Province is that you have to be out there and you have be proactive, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, one point that the Minister of Health and Community Services made - I thought it was a significant point and one that I wanted to reiterate - was that back when the now adviser to the Leader of the Opposition was the Minister of Health, they boasted of a $20 million increase in spending in operations. Now, Mr. Speaker, we are over a $200 million increase this year. That will just give you a snapshot of what this government thinks of health care, and what it does for health care throughout this Province. We are actually after taking the provincial Budget from $1.6 million in 2003 to now almost $2.6 billion, so we have increased it almost by a billion dollars since taking office in 2003. That is certainly a significant commitment from this party with health care and certainly nurses as well.

Mr. Speaker, sometimes you read some interesting articles in this business, and I had the opportunity to read one in The Telegram a few months back, a number of months back, and some of the things that were talked about in the nursing profession I thought were worthy of note. Just to again counteract the Opposition’s thing that we are doing nothing, and there is nothing happening here in this Province, and the sky is falling, I just want to lay out some of the things that we are doing, and some of the comments that have been made about the things that we are doing, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to point out that 221 nurses graduated from the Province’s nursing schools in 2007, an increase of 17.6 per cent from 2006. So, here we are recruiting more nurses within our Province than the previous year. Mr. Speaker, nationwide that year, throughout the whole country, the best they did was a 12.7 per cent increase. So, Mr. Speaker, here we are, out ahead of the national average in nurse recruitment.

To that point, I have a comment that I would like to share, and the comment goes: We fared quite well compared to other provinces, says Jim Feltham, president of the Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador. So, Mr. Speaker, even in some corners of the nursing profession they realize how hard we are working. Do we have work to do? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, but we are certainly out there, we are certainly on the ball, we are certainly trying our best, and we are going to keep trying our best as well.

Mr. Speaker, to the credit of the nursing profession as well - and I have to point this out – was another point that was made by an Ellen Rukholm. She compliments the nurses in this Province in the way they work together throughout the hospitals and throughout the schools, and I certainly take my hat off to nurses who are actually out there as well doing what they can for recruitment in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, another point that I would like to make, this is a quote that came from the Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing, and her name is Lynnette Stamler. Mr. Speaker, last year the Province admitted 262 students to nursing schools, only slightly more than it graduated. Her quote is this, Mr. Speaker: I think it is very admirable that Newfoundland manages to keep the number they admit and the number they graduate as close as they do to the number they graduate. Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a significant piece of work.

Like I have said in the past, we are out there; we are being proactive. If you listen to the Opposition, you would believe certainly that we are doing nothing on this. Nothing, again, could be further from the truth.

I would just like to point out a couple of things that we have done over the last couple of years when it comes to new graduates, better recruitment and that sort of thing, Mr. Speaker. In Budget 2008 we increased the number of seats – funded the number of seats – by thirty-six over the last couple of years to bring the numbers from 255 to 291 in our schools this year. Now, Mr. Speaker, we had a retention rate of one of the best in the country in 2008 at 81 per cent. Certainly, after this contract, hopefully we will be in a better position to retain even higher than the 81 per cent that we currently do.

As well, Mr. Speaker, $1 million is to be cost-shared with regional health authorities to support an eight-week orientation program for new nursing graduates in front line practice. In addition, a provincial mentoring program is in place to further support integration of new graduates in practice. Mr. Speaker, there is another point, something else that we are doing to recruit and retain nurses in this Province. Like I say, Mr. Speaker, this is a government who is open to new ideas, innovative ideas, and will do what we can within our means to recruit and retain nurses in this Province.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the 2008 Budget included $2.1 million to finance new recruitment incentives. These include, Mr. Speaker: 2,500 bursaries for third- and fourth-year nursing students who enter into one-year return-for-service agreements. Mr. Speaker, those bursaries are also available for fast-track students as well. A grant program to assist students with some clinical courses, relocation allowances averaging $5,000 to cover 50 per cent of moving costs, to a maximum of $10,000, and a signing bonus of $3,000 for difficult to fill positions. I guess, where we live in such a vast geography here in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, naturally it is not very easy, on occasion, to get professionals to go to remote areas. So, Mr. Speaker, that was the idea of that $3,000: to help recruit professionals, like nurses, to go to these remote locations.

Mr. Speaker, I mentioned earlier, certainly, that it is obvious that these recruitment measures have to be working to some degree, when in 2008 our retention number, the retained percentage of nurses we kept from graduating classes, was 81 per cent. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, a significant number.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to experienced nurse hires, that is an area, I guess, that we have picked up in quite a bit. The hiring of 155 experienced nurses for 2008 was certainly a positive move. Mr. Speaker, in previous years we would normally hire fifty nurses, so when I say that we have recruited 155 experienced nurses and, of course, they are from external recruits as well, that is certainly a very significant piece of work.

As well, Mr. Speaker, over the last couple of years we have converted a lot of positions from casual to permanent. I believe the Minister of Health referred to that earlier, a significant number. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, in the last two years we have converted 200 RN positions from casual to permanent and I believe - and I stand to be corrected but I know it was in excess of 300 that actually did not want to move from casual to permanent. I guess they have a variety of reasons for that. I am sure they are very well-founded reasons, whether they have young families that they want to spend more time with, or whatever the case may be, so there was an awful willingness by this government to go out and make casual nurses into full-time permanent positions, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, just to add to that, I just want to say, again to dispel some of the myths that the Opposition put out there, we have actually created 200 new nursing positions since 2005, a significant piece of work. Besides that, we are having different things like professional development, one of the points that we talk about quite a bit. Recently, I think it was last year, I attended, on behalf of the minister, a leadership conference that was well attended. Of course, we all recognize that nursing leadership has a significant impact on patient outcomes and so on.

As well, Mr. Speaker, just last week there was a human resources forum that had 140 participants. I guess that was designed for productive dialogue on nursing human resource issues and challenges among key health system partners. Mr. Speaker, some of the themes of that conference that I think are worthy of note were quality workplaces, effective utilization of nursing, human resources and models of clinical nursing practice.

So, Mr. Speaker, we are out there. We are being proactive as a government. The nurses are being very proactive as well and taking part in some of the things that we have set out, and I certainly take my hat off to them. Like I said, if I could leave with one message today it is that we are into a situation in this Province that is no different throughout the country and throughout the world. What we are trying to do is to recruit and retain nurses within the best of our ability. That is something that I, as an MHA, wish for. I know that it is something that the Minister of Finance certainly hopes for, and the Minister of Health, and I know our whole government is hoping to achieve that.

Mr. Speaker, without any further ado, I will take my seat and suggest that after the sun sets tomorrow, hopefully, we will have some real good news and that negotiations will come to an exciting and fulfilling conclusion in the coming days.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words concerning this private member’s resolution today. It is very timely, in fact, given that the nurses and government are consensually going back to the bargaining table tomorrow morning, April 2, and that is a good thing to see.

This, of course, is a very serious issue and it is of great concern to everybody in this Province, I am sure, not only to nurses but government takes it very seriously as well, as does everybody who might be impacted should something happen or transpire throughout the negotiations that might lead to a strike. That is why it is of concern here.

I guess the reason the Opposition brought forward this particular motion, as I understand it, brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition, was because of what happened and transpired in the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister last Thursday. It seemed again to be another, shall we say, bit of fuel on the fire that might aggravate circumstances as we approach tomorrow. That is what I understand is the background to why a resolution was brought forward today.

We all have a vested interest here – everybody. Government has, the Opposition has, everybody in the Province has, and the nurses have a vested interest in seeing that what can be done here to resolve this situation is done. We all might have to - whether nurses have to change and modify their position, and government might have to modify their position, that is understandable. That is the whole purpose of the collective bargaining process.

The end result, and what we are calling for here in a resolution today, is pretty simple. It is not saying don’t give the nurses anything. It is not saying disagree with the nurses on everything. It is not saying don’t negotiate tough. You should negotiate tough. Because, as the President of Treasury Board, the Minister of Finance also represents everybody in this Province, and every tax dollar that we spend, and he has the responsibility to see that he represents everybody when it comes to the expenditure of those monies, not just the nurses, so he has a big responsibility heading into this. All the resolution calls for is the removal of the preconditions. That is all it says. It doesn’t say don’t be a hard, tough bargainer. It says: Will you please remove the preconditions?

I noticed, after I reviewed Hansard from Monday past - maybe it is not of any consequence now because maybe it has, in fact, been removed - maybe the preconditions have been removed. The reason I say that is because of the Premier’s comments in answer to a question during Question Period on Monday. Of course, the notice had been given as to what the resolution would be. The Premier indicated - and I will refer to that - the Premier said, on March 30 on page 65 of Hansard, and I quote, "Now when it comes to preconditions, I want to make it very clear, that what was laid out were the conditions for that particular offer. All conditions are open. If they want to come in on Thursday and they want to negotiate anything – if they wanted, for example, Mr. Speaker, take the template and say: No, we are not going to take the 21 per cent, we are going to take the federal government offer of 6 per cent. So we will trade that off against maybe a two-year agreement … but, there are tradeoffs in a negotiation. We are not saying anything is cast in stone."

I take that to be a pretty clear statement from the Premier that the preconditions are not there as a starting point, as was stated by the Minister of Finance in his statement in the midst of the Budget Speech last Thursday.

I think that is pretty clear. It comes down again to: What is the atmosphere and what is the level of trust that is going to exist when the parties go into the bargaining room tomorrow? Of course, you have to look back and see what has transpired in the past, because where they go tomorrow is going to be impacted based upon the circumstances from which they came.

There are a lot of issues involved here. It is not just about money. Everybody has their concerns here. Part of it is the money issue, part of it is retention issues, part of it is recruitment issues, and part of it is nurse shortage issues. That is all stuff that ought to and will be, no doubt, discussed and be on the table, according to what the Premier said at least: that there is nothing cast in stone. Let’s go in there with an open mind and see where we can go with this.

That is his written statement from Hansard as of Monday. Maybe the vote on the thing here is not even needed in terms of preconditions, because maybe the Premier has already made it known in his answer that the preconditions are not necessarily on the table in any case and let’s approach this with an open mind.

Of course, what brought us to this, there are certain facts that exist here that cannot be ignored as to when we are going in there tomorrow. These are things that have happened. We know, for example, as a fact now that the nurses have a strike mandate. That cannot be changed. I will just review the circumstances that have led us to where we are today, some idea of the timelines that have brought us to where we are – and I suggest that the government has not put itself in a very good light, in going in. Whether we agree or disagree with the nurses, I submit that it was the government who has tainted the water in the well here, based upon their actions over the past number of months, and I will review those circumstances as to why I make that submission.

First of all, there was a change of ministers, going back many, many months. The current Minister of Justice was the former Minister of Finance. I do not think there is any doubt in anybody’s mind in this Province that there was a level of acceptance, credibility, respect, that the former Minister of Finance was easy to talk with, fair minded and so on, and would, everybody thought, have the conduct of these negotiations, but that did not happen.

The Premier chose to move the Minister of Finance out, the former minister, and to bring in a new minister, the current minister that we have. I think that was the first start when we stepped onto a slippery slope, because the nurses saw that as a first step towards going from a – what should I say? - going from a hush puppy type person who was contemplative and negotiable, to creating a pit-bull type of scenario. It is saying right up front, the Premier did with that motion: Don’t fool with us. You are in for a battle. I think that was the clear message, unequivocal message that was sent. No question about it.

So, that is what happened when the Cabinet shuffle took place. Now I understand the former minister was not too pleased with that either, but that is another story, the fact that he got moved, but that is another story.

To continue on with the timelines; once the new minister was in place here, in September – or just to go back here, the parties first went to the table and they started conciliation with a conciliator, and that is a person who comes from HRL&E department of the government. The minister provides a conciliator when the parties ask for one. That was done back last spring. Those talks lasted with the conciliator all of a few days, and things went off the rails. That was back in the spring. No, excuse me, there was a conciliator brought in. He came in September and things went off the rails. Talks broke down between the nurses and government in September.

On November 25, 2008, the Premier warned that the government’s wage offer to the public sector unions could get smaller if the Province’s financial picture got any worse. Another little volley that things are not going to go well; send a message across their bow, smarten up, take the offer that is on the table or perhaps you might not be getting what everybody else accepted, or CUPE accepted back in the spring last year, which was the 8-4-4-4 package, the so-called template. That was the message loud and clear. Take the template. There is nothing else. We are not changing it.

That was followed up on December 9, 2008 when the current Minister of Finance said during the Province’s economic update, he said: the wage offer of the 20 per cent, the 8-4-4-4, could not be guaranteed beyond December 31, last year. The Premier’s message of November 25 was now being strengthened again and restated by the Minister of Finance on December 9. Of course, December 31 came and went.

On January 23 of this year the nurses decided they were going to start their strike vote. On January 23, in the late afternoon I believe it was of that very same day that the nurses said they were starting their strike vote, the government said – in fact, the Minister of Finance said when he was questioned by the media: What might be some of your options and would you…? No question about it, if they go on strike, if they take a strike vote and go on strike, yes, we will legislate them back to work. If forced to, we will legislate the nurses back. That was on the afternoon of January 23.

Then, over the next few days, there were some concerns raised because the nurses apparently came across some jurisprudence from out in B.C and said: Just a minute, maybe the government cannot legislate us back to work. We, in fact, are going to challenge their right to legislate us back to work now. We think we are entitled to binding arbitration. So that issue was floating around for a few days.

Then, on January 28, the government did indeed yank its offer off the table. They said we are not leaving the template there now, what we offered you, the same as everybody else. That was done on January 28. The Premier said at that time, on that day, that the four-year wage template that had been accepted by most public servants was no longer available to groups who had yet to sign.

In fact, we had a reaction at that time from the current head of the nurses’ union as well. She felt, of course, that it was similar to being bullied, I believe were her words, and politicians trying to intimidate her and intimidate her members into getting into a contract. So all this stress and fuss is building up now, not at a bargaining table, not behind closed doors, this is public negotiations from the Minister of Finance and the Premier, shooting this stuff across the bow.

On February 9, a few days later, the nurses did indeed start to take a strike vote. We know that the Premier and the minister were saying, whoa, whoa, stop that, you should not do that. We do not need to take a strike vote. Why don’t you call that off and we can get down to the bargaining and start all over again, start the process. Nurses said, no, just a minute, we are going to go through with this. We had this planned. We need to explain to our membership where we are going, so we are going to take the five weeks that is necessary to do that and go around the Province. They have done that and they do, in fact, have their strike vote. I think it is like 89.7 per cent, all told, from the various sectors around the Province.

It is interesting to note, as well, that on March 12 - and this might not be something that is in the public domain too much - the nurses’ union asked the government, through the Minister of HRLE, can we have a third party and go back to the table again? Lets go back, lets start the wheel again. This was the nurses, now, asking government. Can we go back to the table, take a third party so we can start in good faith again, and we can start these negotiations again with a level of trust. Now, that was even though the nurses’ strike vote was still being taken. They still, in my view, showed some good faith and said, let’s go back to the table again with an independent third party. That was on the twelfth of March.

On the twenty-third of March or the twenty-fourth, not exactly sure of the right day but it was the twenty-third or twenty-fourth of March, the Minister of Human Resources said, no, we are not going to give you an independent third party. You had a conciliator before, we have faith in our conciliators, we do not want to appoint anybody else, and we are going to deny your request. Again, another little bit of fly in the ointment here to keep things stressed out.

Then, of course, we had the bombshell from the minister in his Budget, that you can do this. His comments were, this is contingent, of course, on the union’s acceptance of a collective agreement including government’s proposals on issues such as term of contract, extended earnings loss, market adjustment letter, classification, and MOU. All the pre-conditions were put back in. So, again the nurses are saying, whoa, just a minute. You took that off the table and here you are now you are sticking them back in again. The government’s actions have been combative the whole way. You are either going to put it on or you are not going to put it on. By the way, it is interesting to note that contrary to the Premier saying he was not going to change the template, he has done exactly that, when the minister said we will knock off the two bottom steps and give you a top one, which the minister and the Premier confirm is equal to another $16 million, $17 million. This government is negotiating in public. They are saying they are not going to change the template. They changed the template, they put the conditions in, they take the conditions out, all in the public forum, when it ought to be done behind closed doors, I would suggest, for the interest of everybody here. There is no need of playing one group against the other.

The purpose of our resolution is to merely suggest we might start these negotiations off tomorrow in good faith. If we get confirmation say: Look the conditions are off, they are not there, now let’s go on behind closed doors. If you have to put on your boxing gloves behind closed doors, the two parties, so be it. That is where it ought to be done. When it is done, of course, we, as a Province, will have to live with the decision that comes out of it. No problem being tough, but it is being tough in the right places in the right manner.

I just submit, that putting these pre-conditions and negotiating in public, through the media, has not done any good service to any party here, whether it be government or whether it be the nurses. I just personally do not think it has been the best approach. Go behind closed doors and if you want to put on boxing gloves, go to it. That is where it ought to be done. Right now, everybody in the Province is under a great deal of stress because they do not know what is going to happen and they are not feeling secure about the relationship the parties have going in. That is the only reason I support this motion here, to remove the preconditions, because it might be of good start in getting things off to a great start tomorrow morning.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Collins): The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

One point made by the Opposition House Leader was the issue of collective agreements and the changeover in departments between myself and the current Minister of Justice. I will say, Mr. Speaker, and I will admit, that prior to getting into this position I had no great knowledge of collective agreements or labour negotiations, and it has been quite a learning experience. However, I am also very proud to say, that since I have been President of Treasury Board we have negotiated agreements with all but one bargaining group of NAPE, so we have fifteen bargaining units if NAPE who have signed agreements: the Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers’ Association; the Association of Allied Health Professionals; the police; and particularly the correctional officers. It is the first time that they signed a collective agreement in twenty years. To date, I would say that is not a bad record, and hopefully now, Mr. Speaker, we will be able to reach a deal with the nurses.

There is no question, Mr. Speaker, as indicated previously, of the seriousness of the issues that are at stake. I stand here today in response to a motion brought by the Opposition. I commented yesterday in relation to questions raised in the House of Assembly by the Opposition. Obviously, the Opposition is bringing it to our attention.

It is amazing how times change, Mr. Speaker. The Member for Conception Bay South outlined earlier the political nature. The Leader of the Opposition, on April 28, 1999, this is what she had to say, "This situation is no different but it is very difficult. I am not saying this because it is this government that is dealing with it today." She is talking about the nurses’ situation. "It could be another government that is dealing with it tomorrow. It is very difficult to address any situation, when you have people who are not even willing to sit down at the table and begin a dialogue."

"I have seen the leader of the nurses’ union," she said, "and I have listened to the comments she has made in representing the nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador. One thing that always stands out in my mind, one of the things that I always have difficulty with, is how any individual can take on a position of that calibre and still not be willing to sit, discuss, dialogue and keep an open mind."

So, obviously, Mr. Speaker, the relationship of yesteryear has now blossomed into one of support and friendship, because the comments made in 1999 were much more critical than any comments that we have made today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, the Opposition indicated that nurses want to be on par. They are substantially being paid higher, substantially higher, nurses in other parts of Atlantic Canada.

The reason we addressed this in the Budget, Mr. Speaker, is that we heard what the nurses said. We have heard hundreds of statements by the union on the issues of recruitment and retention. They said there are difficulties here.

So how do we propose to address the issues of recruitment and retention? First, we remove two steps from the bottom, we said. We are willing to remove two steps from the bottom. Well, Mr. Speaker, each one of those steps is worth 4 to 4.5 per cent. So a new nurse coming into the system will go from making approximately $46,000-$47,000 a year, immediately to $53,000.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of other issues that we also should keep in mind. Newfoundland and Labrador currently has the lowest income tax rates in Atlantic Canada, which will benefit new nurses. Secondly, the interest relief on student loans last week will benefit new nurses.

So the new nurses coming into this system are in a situation that will place them, during the life of this contract – and that is not including what we are willing to do with standby and shift differential rates. So what we have is a situation where they will be - 30 per cent of nurses, or the new nurses coming in, and the Member for Conception Bay South outlined how successful we are with recruiting nurses from our schools and bringing them into our system. So there are substantial benefits to the new nurses.

Then, Mr. Speaker, we have the issue of retention. Seventy percent of the nurses are at step seven. Although the Minister of Health could outline in more detail, it is my understanding, essentially, that you move a step a year. So that by seven years into the profession you are at step seven. So nurses at thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-five years of age could be making, with this particular increase – if you take a step, that is another 4.5 per cent.

The Leader of the Opposition says: What about pattern bargaining? Well we can be accused of going outside the pattern bargaining because we are giving them more.

Now, what else can we do, Mr. Speaker? A nurse now making $58,000 at step seven will automatically go to $66,000; $8,000. What we have are raises that are quite significant. For the nurses then who are the more senior nurses, there is significant benefit in terms of pensions and severance; significant benefits that will benefit them over the life of this contract.

In the Budget we decided we had to look at allocating money. We decided to do it the way we did it. Mr. Speaker, my comments in the Budget – and the Premier said it the other day, and I said yesterday – is that if you want the best offer, if you want the two steps removed at the bottom, if you want the top step added, if you want higher standby and shift differentials, well there has to be quid pro quo. It cannot be all give and no take. If you want that one, there are preconditions.

Now if you want to negotiate less money for a two-year contract, if you want to take the federal civil service deal for two years, we will look at it. If you want to take the New Brunswick deal for less money we will look at it. Because let’s look at what is happening in New Brunswick, Mr. Speaker. We not only now have in New Brunswick a province that is running significant deficits, but they have been forced to impose a hiring freeze and a wage restraint policy. Nurses in New Brunswick who have, I think, recently signed a three-year deal for 11.5 per cent - again, there are a lot of figures, I think I am right on that. Well, they are going to have a two-year wage freeze after that. That three-year 11.5 per cent contract now becomes a five-year 11.5 per cent contract. Do the math, 2.1 or 2.3, not 16.5 per cent, not 12.5 per cent, in the first year.

So this offer is particularly generous. We recognize, Mr. Speaker, and we say it time and time again, we recognize the important role that our nurses play, but by referring to the comments of the Leader of the Opposition in 1999, it is not just this government. It was going on in 1999. It is going on today, unfortunately. So, I do not think it is fair for the Opposition House Leader to say that it is this government. Unfortunately, what has happened with the nurses over many years, obviously problems have developed. We are trying to address them. We are trying to address them, Mr. Speaker, by putting more money into the health care system, $2.6 billion this year.

The Member for Conception Bay South outlined the issues on recruitment, how we are addressing recruitment, the number of our nurses we are keeping here. We are increasing the nursing school complement.

Are we going to be competitive in Atlantic Canada? Not only are we going to be competitive, Mr. Speaker, but we will be, if we look at a 3 per cent increase over the next number of years for other provinces in Atlantic Canada, which is very unlikely, by the way, then we will be the highest paid. We will have the highest paid nurses in Atlantic Canada.

In 2010, a nurse at the top of the scale in Newfoundland and Labrador at step six will make $71,400, if I am reading this chart correctly. Am I reading this correctly Minister of Health? That puts us first in Atlantic Canada and fifth in the country. The difference between being fifth in the country and third in the country is about $3,000. We are in the game, Mr. Speaker. We set out to make our nurses, to reward them for their sacrifice, and we feel we are doing that.

Now, in terms of pre-conditions, if they want to look at other issues, if they want - we heard the president of the union talking about extended earnings loss. Well, Mr. Speaker, my numbers right now, and I could be wrong in this, but my numbers right now show that there are forty-one nurses on extended earnings loss in this Province. Again, if the nurses wish to negotiate on that for lower wage increases, so be it.

We have heard of the market adjustment. I do not have the time to get into that today, Mr. Speaker, but again, these are issues we are willing to look at.

The Premier said the other day, and I quote: "All conditions are open. If they want to come in on Thursday and they want to negotiate anything - if they wanted, for example, Mr. Speaker, take the template and say: No, we are not going to take the 21 per cent, we are going to take the federal government offer of 6 per cent. So we will trade that off against maybe a two-year agreement. We will consider absolutely anything, but there are tradeoffs in a negotiation. We are not saying anything is cast in stone." Now that is our position. What I outlined in the Budget was the best offer scenario that would have certain conditions attached.

Mr. Speaker, let’s look at a nurse at the bottom of the scale. Step one, remove two steps at 4 per cent to 4.5 per cent, add on 8 per cent. That is a 16.5 per cent increase; 16.5 per cent in one year, potentially, this could all work out to. The numbers are still a moving target because it depends when you bring the contract in et cetera.

Now – I was going to call him my learned friend, but I am not in court. The Minister of Health, my colleague the Minister of Health, who is also very learned, indicated to me that the shift differential and standby rates can add significant sums of money to the salaries of a nurse. So, these are all very significant factors. We realize that nurses have to be treated fairly, and that is what we are trying to do.

When I read yesterday from the comments of the Opposition House Leader that is what he was referring to in 1999: the nurses want a fair deal. We feel, Mr. Speaker, that we are being very fair in these circumstances.

Mr. Speaker, the patients of this Province are our concern. The nurses of this Province are our concern. There was an e-mail referred to by the Opposition Leader yesterday which I, quite frankly, find offensive: the fact that there could be any imputation that this government are dealing with the members of this union differently because they are female.

This government stands on its policy for gender equity; the steps that we have taken to improve the conditions of women in this Province; the fact that we now have six Cabinet ministers who are female. We are dealing with the situation as best we can. There is nothing personal in this. This is a job that we do. It is a job that we were elected to do.

As the Opposition House Leader indicated, we have to be prudent - I do not know if that is the term he used - in terms of negotiations, and there is nothing wrong with taking a hard stance. The fact that myself and the union, or the government and the union, disagree with the interpretation of the Supreme Court of Canada case, that is a point for the future.

What we want, Mr. Speaker, is to reach an agreement. We want to get at the table and we want to hear what the nurses have to say. As for the strike vote, that is their right. They have taken their strike vote; they have it. What we want to do is avoid a strike. We came out and we offered an offer which in this current economic climate is unheard of - unheard of, the kinds of money we are putting on the table - but we are saying to the nurses we hear what you are saying. We hear that yes, you are entitled to the quality of life that allows you time for your family, allows you time for vacation, but work with us is what we are saying. That is what the Leader of the Opposition said in 1999, and she was not very complimentary at that time towards the union. That is what we are trying to do. Work with us and let’s get a deal for the betterment of this Province, Mr. Speaker, because that is what we were elected to do.

The Opposition House Leader outlined the number of times – I think he outlined a chronology of events, I will call it that, and accused us of bargaining in public. Mr. Speaker, we are answering concerns. We are trying to make the public and the nurses aware that we care about the situation and we want to reach a deal.

Mr. Speaker, having said all of that, the Premier said the other day: If they want to strike, what can we do? We have to, as a government, maintain a fiscal responsibility. All other unions – and I am not saying it is right or wrong, although I see no difficulty with it – have signed on for the extended earnings loss; they have signed on to the market adjustment. If we have 38,000 public sector employees in this Province, and I think it is something like that, to this point almost 33,000 have signed on to these particular clauses.

Mr. Speaker, as I come into the House of Assembly today, and I am talking to someone, they say: Thank you for that 21.5 per cent increase. Look what that just added…. I think, in fact, they got another 4 per cent today. I think the employees get another 4 per cent today, Mr. Speaker.

It is one thing to talk about being blindsided, but again, Mr. Speaker, as the Premier said, when you are offering someone more money, when you are giving someone that which they are asking for, I would not call that being blindsided. I would call that a government who is being fair, generous, and trying to accommodate the needs of the patients of this Province, the health care system and the nurses.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. the Leader of the Opposition speaks now she will close the debate.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly welcome the comments that have been stated in the House today by colleagues on both sides of the House. I am sure that those who have spoken have been sincere in their comments in terms of not wanting a strike by nurses in this Province, and ensuring that the people who need to use the health care system will have a reliable system, a system that they can depend upon. I do not think it is anything other than that which people would want to see coming out of this.

The reality is, Mr. Speaker, there is only one group of people in this House of Assembly that can actually prevent a strike by nurses in the Province, and that is the government members opposite. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker, the Minister of Finance, is one of the key negotiators in ensuring that nurses do not strike in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the course of events that surround this particular issue over the last few months have not gone unnoticed by members in the public, as has been evident by the numbers of calls that have gone into radio programs, the number of individuals who have spoken up, and those who have written and sent e-mails both to the paper and to other MHAs in the House of Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, the one thing, I think, that keeps coming up around all of this is that nurses feel from this government there is a climate of disrespect and there is not a level of trust. They have every reason to make those kinds of statements. I have heard the president of the nurses’ union herself say that there needs to be a climate of respect and of trust, and that does not exist right now.

She said that, Mr. Speaker, based on the fact that government has continuously bullied nurses into trying to accept a deal that has not been bargained and negotiated and agreed upon - and there are several courses of events. In fact, Mr. Speaker, even when the talks had broken off, when nurses said: I am sorry, we cannot sign on. We do not see how this is going to recruit and retain nurses in the Province, which is our ultimate concern right now. We have thousands of vacancies in the nursing profession.

In fact, we have so many vacancies in the nursing profession in the Province today that the Minister of Health and Community Services refuses to put out the numbers. They stopped putting out the numbers about three quarters ago, almost a year ago, because they do not want the numbers out there any more; the vacancies in the profession are so high.

Mr. Speaker, they said to government: Your intentions might be good, and you might see this as a great plan for nurses, but we do not think it is going to do what we need to do to recruit and retain nurses in our system. We know that there needs to be more, and we want to talk about that.

They did not get to talk about that because all of the talks broke off, and after the talks broke off the Premier went out and said to the nurses: You either take it – you have a deadline – you take it before this date or the wage package that we are offering nurses is going to get smaller. Because, as our deficit starts to climb, as the price of crude starts to go down, as all of these factors around the economy start coming into play, we might have to cut back the offer that is on the table.

That infuriated nurses in the Province, because it was telling them that you have to sign on before I think it was the end of the year or you could potentially get a lot less money.

Now, if that is not putting their backs to the wall, if that is not trying to bully them into accepting something that they just told you was unacceptable and we need to talk more, we need to work on this more, we need to look together to find solutions - Mr. Speaker, it was after all of that that government said: If you don’t take it now, if you don’t sign on now, you could get a lot less come the new year, and if you get a lot less that is not our issue.

That was coming from a government and a Premier that said we do not want to do non-pattern bargaining in the Province, but they were certainly prepared to offer the threat to nurses that they were getting ready to move to non-pattern bargaining and they were going to bargain in a way that was going to reduce the offer that was currently there.

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, in January, the nurses went out and announced that they were going to have a strike vote. They said to the government, said to the Minister of Finance, we are getting ready to have our strike vote. If you want to remove the preconditions from the table we will go back and we will go to the bargaining table and we will negotiate a deal with the government, or attempt to, before we even launch a strike vote. But - and it was made very, very clear - if you do not agree to do that, once our strike vote starts, we will not be stopping. We will have to carry on throughout the Province with that vote.

Well, guess what? Government did not respond before the strike vote started. They did not respond. In fact, they waited until three days after nurses were making and marking their ballots and putting them in a box. It was three days into the strike vote before government came out and said: Okay, now we are ready to go back to the bargaining table. Now we are ready to sit down and remove the preconditions.

That is not respectful, Mr. Speaker. They were given lots of notice by the nurses’ union. They were asked specifically to respond to us by a certain date, but again, in the disrespect and disregard for the process, for the nurses themselves, for the leaders in the union, they said: No, no, we will do it on own time. They wait for the vote to start before they actually go to nurses and say now we are ready to go back.

In the midst of all of that, the Minister of Finance held a media conference, and in the media conference he was asked: Are you prepared to impose a settlement on nurses? He said: Absolutely, we will impose a settlement on nurses. In fact, he said, government threatened to legislate the nurses back to work. If forced to, and if we want to get to this stage, we will legislate nurses back to work and we will impose a settlement. He was not prepared to bring in binding arbitration, which is the other option that nurses were asking for. They were not prepared to bring in binding arbitration, which is a practice that was used a few years ago with the RNC.

Mr. Speaker, the reason they will not bring in binding arbitration is because any group of government workers that goes to binding arbitration, their case is looked at based on everything except the monetary cost to government. Any binding arbitration case does not look at government’s ability to pay out what that ruling is. That is the reason why government will not allow binding arbitration for nurses, will not allow an independent process whereby the issues that nurses raise will be looked at, will be investigated, will be balanced against all the arguments. Then there will be recommendations that would say: What is a reasonable amount of pay? What is reasonable as a recruitment plan for nurses? Where should we be bringing nurses in at a starting base in this Province? At what level should they be at in their twenty years of service, twenty-five, thirty years of service in the Province? All those things would be looked at in binding arbitration and they would be ruled upon. Then government would have to live with those recommendations, finding a way to impose them or to bring them into effect, and it would have nothing to do with government’s ability to pay. Of course, it is the reason that they do not want to go down that road.

So, Mr. Speaker, they are prepared to legislate them back to work. They are prepared to impose a settlement. They are not prepared to go to binding arbitration. They are not prepared to bargain in good faith because after making the declaration to nurses that we will go back to the bargaining table and we will remove the preconditions, a week ago in this House of Assembly the Minister of Finance all of a sudden flipped his view. Flipped his view, unscripted he said, in the middle of the most important document to be tabled in the history of this year’s sitting. He said: these are the conditions that we are prepared to put there for nurses.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we had to ask yesterday in the House of Assembly prior to the motion coming to the floor, if that was the opinion of the government, if the government were prepared to lift the preconditions to go back to the table with nurses? I think the response from the Premier at the time – I will consult with my colleague here – was that indeed they were prepared to lift those conditions.

Mr. Speaker, I guess there is no doubt in our minds today that government will be supporting this motion. They will support the motion based on what the Premier’s comments were in Question Period yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, let me just say this: Nurses have every right, every right, to bring their issues to the forefront, to bring them to the public, to launch a campaign against government that helps strengthen not only their benefits but strengthen the health care system in this Province. That is the freedom of choice that we have. Those are the tools that are afforded to the unions in this Province. A tremendous benefit can wield lots of power, lots of progress and lots of results; but, Mr. Speaker, it is a two-way street. They can only raise the profile of their issues. They can only put forward what they see as solutions, just like government puts forward what it sees as a solution, but at some point there has to be a degree of trust. There has to be mutual respect on both sides in order to achieve an agreement, in order for what both sides see as effective solutions to come together to resolve the issue.

Right now, nurses in this Province feel that they do not have respect from this government and that they cannot trust them in terms of being able to negotiate in good faith, and they have given lots of examples of it. The latest example in which government has broken its word and broken its commitment, something that they frown on the federal government for doing, something that they frown on every other group, sector, company that they have ever dealt with in the Province for doing, but something, Mr. Speaker, that they can legitimize in their own minds when they do it. Well, it does not work that way. It does not work that way.

Mr. Speaker, the first thing that needs to happen here is that government needs to remove the preconditions that are on the table for nurses. They need to go back tomorrow morning with a clean slate, with an open mind. They need to start rebuilding that respect and that trust with the nurses’ union in the Province, and they need to be able to reach a deal that both sides can live with, that will serve the better interests of the people of this Province, Mr. Speaker.

We have enough issues today in our health care system. We have enough incidents today of people being turned away from our Province to get treatment elsewhere, of surgeries being cancelled, of people not being able to afford to get to a hospital when they need certain medical procedures. Mr. Speaker, we do not need to compound the problems in our health care system.

I think Chief Justice Cameron has just given us a very good insight into some major challenges that we already have within our health system that need to be tackled. We do not need to compound it. We do not need to worsen it. We do not need to make it any weaker than it actually is. If anything, we need to strengthen it. We need to ensure that people have confidence in it. We need to ensure there is accessibility, and we need to ensure that people who are sick and need services can get them, Mr. Speaker, and that lies on the shoulders of the government to work a deal with nurses to ensure that tomorrow they go to the table with an open mind, open perspective, no preconditions, prepared to find a solution that will serve the better interests of the people in this Province. Because it is the people in this Province who are looking to you as their government today to ensure that they will have health care services that they can rely upon, and that they will not be left in the cold because of your actions and your decisions.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to all members supporting this motion today; because if their interests really are where they lie, and that is in the health care of the people of the Province, they will certainly support this motion and start negotiations with nurses tomorrow on an even keel, with a new slate and an open mind.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Is the House ready for the question?

Shall the resolution as put forward by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition carry?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: The resolution is defeated.

On motion, resolution defeated.