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Oral
Questions
March
11, 2008
Home
| In the House | Question
Period
MS
JONES:
Mr.
Speaker, my questions are for the Premier.
In
2005, the Eastern Health Authority spent $450,000 on a
comprehensive facilities review that identified critical
problems with the physical structures of health care
buildings, including the four hospitals in
St. John’s
. These
reports have been hidden for the past thirty months, and
only released when the Minister of Health accidentally
referenced them in a recent media scrum.
I ask
the Premier: When did you
become aware of these reports, that they even existed,
and the recommendations that they contained?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the
hon. Leader of the Opposition for that important
question.
Mr.
Speaker - I will try to keep it within the time frame -
what government has been wrestling with in health care
and in other departments is serious infrastructure
problems with regard to new buildings with maintenance
and repairs. The
Health Department, particularly, has been basically
looking at an overall plan to revisit the facilities, to
look at relocating some of the facilities, to
redesigning some of the facilities, to repairing
facilities, building new facilities.
I would have to say probably our top priority
initially was for new facilities.
From my
own perspective, I have never seen that report; but,
having said that, the first time that we would have even
become aware of it as a government – I remember back
– it would have been early last fall when the Cabinet
was asked to provide a half-million dollars for a
consultant report in order to consider infrastructure
issues and site planning, and that was part of that
overall plan, but I have never personally seen the
report myself over the thirty months.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Mr. Speaker, when such reports are
commissioned by government, and they have such startling
recommendations as these reports have, I would expect
that Cabinet Ministers would be responsible to bring
those reports to the attention of Cabinet and
government.
I have
to ask: Were these reports ever
brought to Cabinet, or their existence raised in terms
of the needs that they were asking for in those
documents?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER
WILLIAMS: As the hon. Leader of the Opposition is
aware, when she sat in Cabinet, general discussions take
place in Cabinet with regard to general planning.
As, of
course, of last fall we were still four or five months
away from a Budget plan - assuming, of course,
obviously, that we were re-elected.
That process is all part of the general
discussion that would go on with regard to planning.
We
usually input in the fall into the planning process in
order to prepare our budgets.
As a general rule, departmental reports don’t
necessarily come before Cabinet.
Some do, some don’t.
When they do, we have detailed presentations on
them.
There
was no detailed presentation on this particular report
as, in fact, as I understand it, it was a buildings
assessment - is exactly what it was.
So it was discussed in the context of the overall
infrastructure program and site planning and maintenance
and repair generally.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Mr. Speaker, I guess what is surprising for
us is that we have seen two Budgets being brought to
this House by the government opposite since these
reports were tabled with the Department of Health and
Community Services; yet they have not been addressed.
I do
realize that the Premier, last week, announced that they
would increase their infrastructure budget this year to
try and deal with some of the critical problems here.
I think he quoted an additional amount of $6
million.
I have
to ask the Premier today, Mr. Speaker: Does
he feel that this amount of money is sufficient to
address the critical problems - not the overall problems
that were outlined, but the more critical problems -
that have been outlined in these documents?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER
WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would have to honestly say
there is never enough money to deal with all the
problems in maintenance and repair, whether it happens
to be in our hospitals, in our schools, or other
infrastructure. To
deal with the critical problems - the critical problems
that we are presently aware of - this would certainly
appear to adequately deal with those.
From
our understanding, when we considered this over a week
ago, there would have been approximately $22 million or
maybe $23 million from fourteen.
So, when you have used the term six – I think
what I had said actually was, we would increase it by
about 50 per cent.
We are in that range of $21 million, $22 million,
$23 million. If
that is what is necessary to deal with critical problems
in the hospitals then that will be provided.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Obviously,
I asked the question because our analysis of the reports
indicates that the critical areas that need to be
addressed are going to cost approximately $100 million
to do.
My
question for the Premier would be: Have
they looked at a plan to be able to address all of those
problems or when will they have an opportunity to do
that?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and
community Services.
MR.
WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank
the member opposite for doing the critical analysis of
the report. Our
understanding is there are four different categories and
category number one, priority number one, with the
investment we have suggested we will be making next
year, together with the – you have to remember, Mr.
Speaker, over the last four years we have spent close to
$40 million on maintenance repairs in our health
facilities throughout this Province, in addition to
close to $80 million in new construction, and with the
projects we have committed to over the next four years,
a total investment in capital alone will probably be
closer to $300 million.
If you look at that kind of capital investment in
new structures, together with what we are spending on
repairs and maintenance - and in one single year in
addition to that one of our regional health authorities,
Eastern Health, spent an additional $30-odd million of
their money to be able to put into maintenance and
repairs as well.
Given
the commitments we have made, the investments we made in
the past, and what we are gong to be spending next year
and in the future, we will be able to deal with the high
priority issues that were identified in that assessment.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MS
JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say
to the minister, yes, I did do the analysis, but I
understand from the media scrum that you did not even
read the documents.
My next
question is: There are sixty-one other health facilities
around the Province, and I ask the minister:
Has your department
completed any recent cost-analysis for critical upgrades
in those sixty-one other facilities?
If so, can you table those documents in the House
of Assembly, and if not, can you give me the timelines
on which these will be done?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and
Community Services.
MR.
WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There
are multiple questions to that so you will have to give
me a bit of latitude on the forty-five seconds.
The
issue around the reports themselves: Eastern Health has
a software package that allows them to do the profiling
that they have done, and keep in mind that this was a
facility management software package.
This was not a specialized report that was
commissioned akin to other reports that government on
occasion may commission.
This was part of populating a database that
Eastern Health has to manage their health facilities.
The other three authorities do not have that kind
of capacity, they are smaller authorities and they have
fewer facilities. What
they have done themselves is they have done an
evaluation based on their own interpretation of what it
is needs to be done, and through their budgetary
requests they have made a submission to government
looking for funding for next year to be able to do the
necessary repairs and maintenance in their respective
regions.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Mr. Speaker, I take from that answer that
there has not been any other analysis done on critical
upgrades in the other sixty-one health care facilities
in the Province.
Mr.
Speaker, there have been numerous upgrades, as we know,
required to health care infrastructure and some of them
we have heard outlined in the media lately.
One is the lack of sprinkler systems that exist
in some of the Province’s hospitals and long-term care
homes. Just
last month twenty-two privately run personal care homes
were ordered to close in this Province because they did
not have sprinkler systems to protect against life and
safety hazards caused by a potential fire.
We learned, after the fact, that government-run
facilities were in a similar situation.
The people of the Province certainly do not
appreciate being governed by hypocrisy.
I ask
the minister: When is
government going to do away with the double standard and
install the sprinkler systems at government-owned
facilities as they have indicated needs to be done at
privately run facilities?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and
Community Services.
MR.
WISEMAN: The personal care homes that she is
questioning or raising were personal care homes that
were identified by the Fire Commissioner’s Office as
needing to install sprinkler systems based on the
evaluation of those facilities and the nature of the
construction. The
health facilities that are operated by our four
authorities, they too have been evaluated by the Fire
Commissioner’s Office on a regular basis.
I understand, from a recent statement by the
Commissioner’s Office, that he plans to do some in the
near future. Any
time the fire commissioner identifies a hazard in any of
our facilities we will respond appropriately.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
fire commissioner has already recommended that there are
two facilities that need to have this installation done
immediately, the Dr. Walter Templeton Health facility on
Bell
Island
and the Newhook Clinic in Whitbourne.
Mr.
Speaker, we know that there are other facilities as well
in the Province, but I ask the minister: When
will government move to install the sprinkler systems in
those two that have been identified?
Again, I ask: What is
the plan to address this lack of safety infrastructure
in the other health care facilities in the Province?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and
Community Services.
MR.
WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to
challenge the statement just made with respect to the
other hazards in other facilities.
As I said in my previous answer, the Fire
Commissioner has not identified or directed us to
maintain or to fix, to change or to add to any of the
other facilities. He
has identified that the sprinkler system is necessary to
be installed in
Bell
Island
and in Whitbourne.
Government, as I said a moment ago, when he has
given that direction and made that comment to us we will
be responding appropriately.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable that the
minister thinks it is acceptable to have acute care
facilities in this Province that do not have the proper
sprinkler systems installed, and again I have to ask: In
facilities like Western Memorial Hospital, like the
Paddon Home in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, when are you
going to take some action to address the needs in those
facilities?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Heath and
Community Services.
MR.
WISEMAN: Once again I want to go back to my earlier
comment. I
am not in a position and we do not have officials in my
department who have the ability to do those kinds of
assessments. That
is why the Fire Commissioner’s Office is staffed with
the capable, competent people to be able to do that kind
of evaluation.
With
respect to the Paddon Home, he has indicated the fact
that we have now started construction, tenders have been
awarded, a new long-term care home is being built in
Happy
Valley-Goose
Bay
to replace the home.
As I understand it, the Fire Commissioner is
satisfied that with the current safety practices within
the Paddon home and the fact that we are in the midst of
building a new one that is acceptable to him.
I understand he has done an evaluation of Western
Memorial Hospital and he has considered the construction
methodology used when that building was built in terms
of fire walls, the construction material, the disaster
plans that they have, the staffing levels they have, the
ability to able to contain certain blocks and sectors of
the building. All
of that I understand was given consideration and that is
why he has not, in fact, given us a recommendation today
to install it in that building.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS
JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My next
question is for the Minister of Municipal and Provincial
Affairs.
Some of
the privately run, personal care home operators have
told us that they were inspected and passed by
government as late as six months ago in order to qualify
for their licenses to operate.
They said there were no conditions put on the
inspection report related to the necessity of installing
sprinkler systems and no correspondence was sent from
government issuing any ultimatum until the final
decision was made.
I have
to ask the Minister of Municipal Affairs: Is
it common practice for the Fire Commissioner to allow
facilities in our Province that are in violation of fire
code laws to pass inspection?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.
MR.
DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, the personal care homes were identified a
number of years ago to have a sprinkler system
installed. That
is why, back in 2005, this government came on side and
did a cost-sharing ratio of 75-25.
The
fact that the order was going on for a time period 2005,
2006, 2007, this year the fire commissioner stated to
me: It is time to stop it; we need to bring it to an
end.
That is
the reason why the closure orders were issued.
Now, when I say closure orders, basically we said
the closure orders but what we want to do is compliance.
After all that, after a month, Mr. Speaker,
twenty of the twenty-two facilities that were asked to
comply did comply.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR.
BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
recent revelation that the government does not have
proper sprinkler systems in hospitals around this
Province, and that other serious public safety concerns
exist in our health care system, was shocking and
disturbing. This
attitude towards public safety also raised concerns
about public safety in other aspects of government.
I ask
the Minister of Education if
she can tell us if schools in this Province are
regularly inspected, and if they are all in compliance
with the current fire safety regulations?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS
BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we take fire safety very
seriously in our schools.
It is my understanding that there are no
outstanding orders from the fire commissioner’s office
in relation to our schools, or any work that has been
identified as fire safety at this point in time that has
not been completed.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR.
BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, this government has developed a
reputation for not being open and accountable.
In the case of public safety, it is important
that parents be assured that schools comply with current
fire regulations. With
this in mind, I ask the Minister of Education: Will
she obtain and make public information related to when
fire inspections in each of the schools were conducted,
and would she also release the nature and results of
such inspections?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS
BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as I had just said, we certainly
take fire safety in our schools as a very important
issue. All
schools, at the beginning of the year, have fire safety
week. They
all practice their fire drills.
They are all timed to make sure that all of the
children, particularly the youngest students who are new
to the school, come in and practice fire safety.
Mr.
Speaker, if there is any information within the
department regarding safety orders, regarding
inspections, regarding our compliance with them, if I
can compile that information and see what is available I
will certainly make it public.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR.
BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for her
response.
We know
government has not followed its own fire safety
regulations in relation to hospitals in this Province.
When government allows such serious problems to
go unaddressed, it becomes even more important that the
Minister of Education assure the people of this Province
that children are safe in our schools.
Will
the minister confirm that some of our older school
buildings have not been required to comply with current
fire regulations, and can she tell us what government
intends to do about this problem?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS
BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding - and as
I have said now twice before during this Question Period
- that fire safety in our schools is absolutely
important and it is a very serious issue.
We make sure when school starts in September that
the fire safety plans for that school are made known to
all students, that evacuation routes are known.
It is practiced.
They do fire drills throughout the year.
Mr.
Speaker, some of our schools are more than forty years
old, some are brand new; but, Mr. Speaker, in every
single case, in every school, we want to make sure that
we do follow fire safety codes and that, based on that
building and based on the standards for that building,
and what is required, we make sure that is followed.
That is very important.
The school boards understand it, the individual
schools understand it, and certainly the Department of
Education understands it.
I had
already made a commitment that we will go back, we will
go through whatever information is available regarding
fire safety in our schools, what work was completed or
needs to be done. Whatever
information I have, that is available, I will make it
available in this House.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR.
BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, this government’s lack of
concern for student safety is nothing new.
Back a year ago when I asked -
SOME
HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR.
BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, back a year ago when I
asked the minister would the department be conducting a
comprehensive review of schools in this Province in
terms of toxic mould and air quality, the minister
dismissed the idea, saying she knew where the problems
were and said such a study was not necessary.
I ask
the minister: Was she aware of
the problems at Hillside Elementary in La Scie at that
time, and does she think it would have saved these
children a lot of problems if she had listened to the
request for a comprehensive review when I made it a year
ago?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS
BURKE: Mr. Speaker, this government - more than
probably any other government in the history of this
Province - has made the conditions and the safety and
the maintenance of our schools a priority.
MS
BURKE: Since 2004, this government spent $111
million on repairs and maintenance to our schools.
Included in that, Mr. Speaker, were 200 roofing,
siding and window projects that were done that
specifically addressed air quality
Mr.
Speaker, when we dealt with the capital plan from the
Central Nova School Board last year, La Scie was number
twenty-six or number twenty-seven on their priority
list.
Mr.
Speaker, it came to our attention last week that there
was mould in the school following an incident where we
found a leaky roof and, Mr. Speaker, we immediately
attended to that issue.
We have taken care of the students - they have a
place to go in La Scie - and we are doing that work
immediately to make sure that school is a safe
environment for those students.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR.
BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say
to the minister, we commend her for correcting the
problem when she knew about it, but this issue could
have been detected back in December 2006.
Why wait until March 2008 to have it done, Mr.
Speaker?
Mr.
Speaker, in the Speech from the Throne, it was revealed
that approximately $2.6 million has been approved for
eighty-seven air quality projects, such as air quality
and hazardous material testing, remediation, carpet
removal and ventilation.
I ask
the minister: Will she be
making all information related to those eighty-seven air
quality projects, including the air quality and
hazardous material testing results, made available to
the public?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS
BURKE: Mr. Speaker, when we go in and we do work at
a school, it is not done in a way that is private or
secretive. If
the work is going on in the school, there has probably
been a public tender that has been let so we can get the
best available price we can to get the work done, and
the scope of the work is defined in that tender.
If we
want to expand Question Period tomorrow, and give me
more than forty-five seconds, I will read out more than
200 projects that we have done, as government, to
address specific air quality issues.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR.
PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My
questions are for the Minister of Innovation.
Mr.
Speaker, since this government was elected, and again
yesterday in the Throne Speech, we have heard about
government’s promise of openness, transparency and
accountability. Surely
the minister would agree that of all issues to which
these principles should apply, the spending of public
funding would be on the top of the list.
My
question to the minister: Do
you, as minister of that department, intend to have your
department adhere to those principles of openness,
transparency and accountability in this operations and
disclosures?
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade
and Rural Development.
MR.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can
absolutely confirm that we do, in our department, adhere
to those principles, which is why every cent of money
that we approve is made public.
Sometimes there is some delay in the time period
that it takes to make it public because we are working
with other financial institutions and other agencies
like ACOA and Services Canada to collaborate on joint
announcements, waiting for their funding to be improved
and what have you, but we have no problem in disclosing
any information on finances that we provide to anybody
in Newfoundland and Labrador.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR.
PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In
February of this year The
Telegram published a report that government had
issued two loans totaling $675,000 to a company called
SAC Manufacturing of Paradise.
This company cashed the cheques, closed down, and
the company directors promptly moved to Alberta.
No government news releases were issued, nor any
announcements made about this funding, when the money
was dispersed, or when the company closed its doors.
No information was ever released by the
department to the public.
The public only found out about this when a local
media followed up on a report from the Comptroller
General almost a year later - not the Auditor General
but the Comptroller General.
My
question to the minister: Please
explain how this is openness, transparency and
accountability when your department never, ever
voluntarily released any of this information of its own
volition.
MR.
SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade
and Rural Development.
MR.
TAYLOR: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, as I am sure the member opposite can
appreciate, we disperse about $20-odd million annually,
probably somewhere in that order anyway. Most of
the programs that we have in place right now did not
exist when they were in government. I think they
had $2 million available for economic development.
As I said, we have somewhere in the order of $20 million
to $25 million in our department available for economic
development.
Some of
the communication protocols, Mr. Speaker, I have to
admit, were somewhat lax in the early going of the
development of these programs. I have asked our
department, our communications director and our
executive to review our communications protocols to
ensure that that instance does not happen in the future.
I can assure the House and the people of Newfoundland
and Labrador, there was no attempt to try and hide this
information from the people of Newfoundland and Labrador
and we will be making changes, as I have said, to our
communication strategy to ensure that this does not
happen in the future, Mr. Speaker.
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